If you cloned 12 Michael Jordan's and 12 LeBron James' and had Team Jordan vs. James, which team would win the most games?
08.06.2025 00:57
7 consecutive Scoring Titles (NBA Record
Let’s take a quick look at player efficiency rating (PER), win shares per 48 minutes, and Box Plus/Minus, Michael Jordan is first all-time in each of these stats for the regular season and the postseason.
Michael Jordan played as a point guard for a total of 24 games. This was an experiment by Doug Collins, who was the coach of the Chicago Bulls at that time. The experiment turned out to be successful as Jordan displayed his versatility on the court, even securing 10 triple-doubles in a span of 11 games.
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There are Michael Jordan vs LeBron James stats that says James has hit more buzzer beaters than Jordan. The shot that is most thought of from James is the air ball he threw up in the closing minute of game 6 in the 2013 NBA Finals. When I think of Mike in the clutch, I think of M.J giving the North Carolina Tar Heels the lead with the championship winning shot in the 1982 NCAA national championship game.
They weren't supposed to win but did & they werent expected to defeat the Lakers, who had just defeated the favorite Portland Trail Blazers in 6 games. Portland was seen as the next dynasty in the NBA, so when LA won in 6, it was thought that the Lakers would roll over the Bulls,
I really take these ppl down, like bad, like they might consider jumping off a bridge when I get finished with them
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It's so stressful making sure this little girl (4'10) doesn't tip over & get hurt, while waiting for a visa to begin the life she stopped believing was possible
We don't, we talk about points-per-game when dealing with scoring in basketball. A player goes to the line…we see a points-per-game graphic
Seven straight triple doubles & 10-in-11 games
My friend asked my crush and he said my crush hates me but not in a rude way. What does that mean?
SO, I’d create a paid ad & get these ppl into gas cards…
FT % 34th
Most points in 5 game series - 226 vs Cavs 1988 (45.2 ppg)
First off, in basketball, there are positions & Michael Jordan, other than the last quarter of the 1988-89 season played shooting guard.
NBA Finals highest PPG in 1993 (41.0 ppg)
THERE ARE PLAYERS MUCH LESS LEGENDARY THAN LEBRON JAMES THAT WOULD HAVE RINGS TODAY IF THEY DID THE WEAK SH** LEBRON DID
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Kobe Bryant’s 81 point game against Toronto in 2006 has the 2nd highest game score rating. M.J has two games in the top 5, LeBron’s first appearance isn’t until #9.
It’s not a question of is James the goat or the next best. Jordan is the goat and Bron isn’t top 3. No one who failed as much as James, who was favored and lost as much, could be the best in a sport, where winning and how you win are the most important criteria.
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Are MAGA the "useful idiots" for the radical-right billionaires like Charles Koch and Elon Musk?
But the point I was going to make quickly before I went & gave my life report was when I began writing content, I was shocked to se e so many ppl spewing nonsense, I didn't know any of this was like this online
They just don't understand there is a skillset involved, you must possess this skillset in order to make money online
He has averaged 7.5 rebounds-per-game throughout his legendary NBA career. “King” James is ranked 13th per-game, all-time in rebounding at the small forward position.
Making the Finals in 2007, where his team was easily swept & winning with 3 different teams….this person had no inkling that this wasn't a plus but a massive negative against LeBron's creditability & legacy
These teams never could beat Jordan (Suns, Sonics, Jazz, Blazers) and weren’t champions like the ones that beat LeBron. If any of those teams would have beaten Michael Jordan’s Bulls, they would’ve reached another level of historical greatness.
Mike has the best scoring average in the regular season (30.1) and postseason (33.5) all-time. In the 1990’s, Karl Malone averaged over 30 points-per-game – one time, nobody else other than Michael Jordan averaged over 30 points-per-game in the 1990’s.
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I don’t think he’ll be able to crack the top ten because to do so, Bron would have to average at least 8.1 RPG.
“His Airness” shot about 50% in games where he was shooting for the win or tie in the final 5 seconds of the game. “King” James in that same situation – has shot 19-94 for 19% from the field.
Had 20+ points in 173 out of 179 career playoff games
They only won two games that series but the Pistons only lost 2 games in the playoffs that year total.
It's incredible, I get offended because I can ’t stand when incorrect information information gets passed around as fact
This is before I found an incredible mentor & then found another different incredible mentor
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It shows that these ppl are forgetting to use their brains, has anyone reading this- ever, looked up the weather or the score of a game they can't tune into or that ended 79 minutes ago
During those games, Jordan demonstrated his versatility and skill by tallying 12 triple-doubles.
Her tipping over is a real possibility, she proves gravity is real for anyone not sure
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The difference being that James ranks 17th all-time in blocks at small forward and Jordan ranks third all-time as a shooting guard.
Each season, the NBA's scoring champ is won by how many points they score per game. Now because LeBron James has been in the NBA for 47 years
James has 3 game score ratings in the top 100 rankings. Michael Jordan has 19 out of the top 100 game scores all-time.
I've sold a lot of Vert shock vertical jump training programs & a lot of betting systems, I use it myself…even someone like me, it helps to have that extra data to study, organized for me
Now tonight we Need Coby White to. Score 12+ point & Andre Drummond to pull down 8+ rebounds
He tried to place himself on the best team in the NBA by messing with the league's power structure..,this isnt done before Bron does it & the only player to do what he did since was Kevin Durant
In 2009, Bron couldn't defeat the Orlando Magic….Michael Jordan alone gave arguably the greatest team in NBA history a headache….with no help in 1986 & took the Bad Boy Pistons to 6 & 7 games in 1989 & 1990 respectively before sweeping them in 1991..
I point out real things….these ppl point out nonsense as their basis of argument.
8 - 50+ point playoff games (record)
This gives both players the same amount at 0.8 blocks-per-game. LBJ is a small forward, while M.J was a shooting guard.
YOU WOULDN'T COMPARE LEBRON'S REBOUNDING TO THE TOP CENTERS OF ALL-TIME, WOULD YOU?
LeBron isn't one of them.
Mike won the NBA Defensive Player-of-the-Year in 1988 and averaged 35 points-per-game in doing so. No other player has averaged 30 PPG and won the Defensive Player-of-the-Year award.
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points 1st
Fact about MJ at Point Guard
NO SHOOTING GUARD IS AVERAGING MORE REBOUNDS PER GAME THAN A SMALLFORWARD - IF HE DOES, IT MEANS REBOUNDING IS A SERIOUS LIABILITY FOR THAT SMALL FORWARD
A few years ago, whenI created a website, hadn't understood how the bacon was fried yet, how the money was made online
Point is now she thinks she's ruined, I won't want her anymore, so the logical step is ending it all
Danny Ainge - SG - all-star
Sounds simple but it's about countless hours of research & analysis…it's about collecting data & then acting on that data accordingly to give ppl what they want.
109 - 30+ point playoff games (2nd to Lebron) LBJ had played in 103 more playoff games than MJ & has 11 more 30+ point games than Mike
Only five small forwards have ever averaged 10+ rebounds-per-game. They are Elgin Baylor (13.5), Dave Debusschere (11.2), Billy Cunningham (10.1), Larry Bird (10.1), and Bailey Howell (10.0).
rebounds 3rd
Game Score
In Understanding Stupidity, James F. Welles defines stupidity this way: “The term may be used to designate a mentality which is considered to be informed, deliberate and maladaptive.” Welles distinguishes stupidity from ignorance; one must know they are acting in their own worst interest.
And it was because of Kevin Garnett & Kobe Bryant that high school kids would begin to be taken too high sometimes, players like Kwame Brown or Sebastian Telfair
My Little Meatball Enchilada
In rebounding, the basketball can be bent and manipulated either way, if a person feels so inclined to do so.
She's beautiful but being Italian & Latina, she didn't have the smallest nose, so she got a nose job, I guess early last year
BTW, never see a girl with two college degrees & think,”well, this won't be as difficult as some women are”
haven't even met in person because the Visa takes time….why won't she just let me send her money? Now I know not to even offer but she's extremely proud
As I told my Brazilian girlfriend's male friend, who didn't help her when she got hurt last week & needed stitches
Highest assists per game average by non-pg in NBA Finals 11.4 (1991)
FG % 17th
38 - 40+ point playoff games (record)
LeBron James- SF
Michael Jordan wasn't on a super team, they were great defensively but what made them special was Michael Jordan
People act like total points is the benchmark…it's not….this is how you know if you don't actually know that there ppl are spitting nonsense
And the Lakers won game 1 in Chicago too. And then didn't win again that series. The following year of 1991-92, the Bulls got respect, they were champions
And for those special fans who should have to pass a test before giving their invalid takes
FOR NBA LEGENDS - WINNING RINGS MATTERS BUT HOW YOU WIN THEM MATTERS MUCH MORE
He left to be in Los Angeles, nobody except Jerry West knew Kobe Bryant would become Kobe Bryant in a few years
In the following 1989-90 NBA season, Jordan returned to his original position, shooting guard.
LeBron James is 22-33 in the NBA Finals and in 2011 & 2014 he missed the plane or just didn’t show up for some other reason. Maybe he left his heart in Akron.
Kevin Duckworth - C - 2x all-star - MIP award
FT % 107th
I think of the shot over Craig Ehlo in the 1989 playoffs and I think of the sequence where he scored, stole the ball from Karl Malone and then hit the shot over Bryon Russell to secure the Chicago Bulls sixth NBA championship.
Most points in a playoff game (63 points)
What MJ did at 40 years-old is better than or on par with James’ steals average throughout his career. For his Career, the Akron, Ohio native averages 1.6 steals-per-game.
This is because you can’t compare a guard-to-a-forward when it comes to this stat.
His performance as a point guard was influential enough that Jordan himself believed playing point guard could extend his career.
During this period, Jordan’s average statistics were impressive 33.6 points,10.8 rebounds and 11.4 assists and 2.9 steals per game. This exceptional performance proves that Jordan could perform excellently in positions other than his regular shooting guard role.
OF COURSE YOU WOULDN'T - YOU BIASD F***, SO WHY WOULD YOU COMPARE HIM IT A SG?
Buck Williams - PF - 3x all-star - all-nba (2) - 2x all-defense (1) - 2x all-defense (2) - NBA ROY
But Michael Jordan was a better overall basketball player. He was more clutch & if anyone wants to argue that MJ was more clutch than LeBron, I seriously question your knowledge of the history of NBA basketball.
I didn't know her yet but seeing pictures, she didn't need it, actually I think she was sexier with her real nose
M.J played seven full seasons in the decade and averaged over 30 ppg – five times.
They're only thought of by uninformed fans as a super team because they always won but if you place MJ on some of his top rivals teams & some of the other contenders at the time
FG % 9th
steals 9th
Btw, back to marketing, when a person goes to Google search & types in cheapest gas prices in PA…..what do they want…what is their intent?
Watching LeBron James defend Derrick Rose in certain situations in the 2011 Eastern Conference Finals was a thing a beauty.
Portland Trail Blazers 1991-92
Michael Jordan- SG
Thing is James didn’t always play top notch defense, even though he was more than capable of it.
But in 1992, this was going to be the beginning of the dynasty & they were partly correct, they just had the team wrong
Michael was so good at stealing the basketball that he averaged 1.5 steals at 40-years-old with the Washington Wizards.
Nothing but a feather 🪶 in the wind during a tornado 👌. You've been exposed, take your fu**ing snake oil & kick rocks….
Someone here on Quora, they wanted to make an argument for Bron against Michael & there two ridiculous talking points were
But let's look at advanced analytics anyway
So, the Bulls defeat a Blazers team with all-star caliber players at all 5 positions & a future all-star in Cliff Robinson coming off the bench
But in 1996, these teams with high picks wanted a finished product, not a guy that would take some time to develop.
“Air Jordan” averaged the most blocks-per-game by an off guard in a season with 1.6 per-game in 1987-88.
Both of those mentors opened my eyes to what making money online in this fashion was about
And the ones that are trying to sell courses, oh no, I get at them, at first, they pretend that they're not amateurs, how does someone that isn't making money or know how to make money online, selling courses to make money online?
I didn't know any of this back then but to continue off topic….in a scenario like this, I would flip the market
If you put MJ with D. Wade & Chris Bosh, Dirk Nowitzki doesn't have any championship rings….are you serious right now…it's ppl unequaled to talk NBA history But deciding to do so anyway.
assists 4th
It's not about writing great articles, it's about great marketing…it's about putting the products ppl want in front them
But it's evident that those that try to compare LeBron to Michael, they don't really know much at all about Michael Jordan the basketball player.
REBOUNDING PER GAME
These ppl are laughable at best, since when do we talk about total points in terms of scoring in the NBA?
Jordan was named to the All-NBA Defensive First Team nine-times in a row from 1987-88-until 1997-98. Winning the 1987-88 NBA Defensive Player-of-the-Year Award.
points 2nd
I tell you ppl what I told him - YOU BETTER GO HOP SKIP YOUR FRUITY PEBBLE ASS BACK TO HONDURUS BEFORE I GET MAD - YOU SILLLY FU**ING FA****
MJ did though. He had to put up crazy points too. If Michael Jordan didn’t score around 30 points in playoff game, his Bulls likely weren’t going to win. LeBron never was in a situation like this. At least where “the King” won a championship.
For the last 24 games of the 1988-1989 season, Jordan played point guard under the direction of coach Doug Collins. During this period, Jordan averaged 30.4 points, 10.7 assists, 9.2 rebounds, and 2.4 steals per game.
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And then be banned from gambling in the future- for life
Highest PPG in Playoffs (33.4)
SOME RANDOM FACTS
Michael Jordan led the NBA in steals three-times as a member of the Chicago Bulls. His highest average was 3.2 steals-per-game in 1987-88.
But these NBA fans are no different, they want to talk about the game's illustrious history without knowing it
Garnett didn't want to leave Minnesota, he wanted to win a ring in Minnesota, as he says in his Showtime Documentary (paraphrasing)”they were my team & it would've meant so much more to win it with them”
Not all people who think Jordan is the goat are actually Michael Jordan fans. They’re just people who have seen both players play their basketball careers. It’s why in an argument we laugh and tell you you’re uninformed, it’s like a secret, an inside joke. There is no other reason for your beliefs than you lack the proper knowledge.
blocks 3rd
DEFENSE
If what LeBron did was playing cards at a casino, he'd be taken out into the alley & beaten (at least)
LeBron James is a top tier legend & deserves a lot of credit for living up to the hype he faced coming out of St. Vincent St.Mary's
If you don't know these simple facts, then you really shouldn't be leaving me comments - telling me I don't know the game but I'm joking, you shouldn't be doing this regardless.
If they had, he would've been drafted much higher, GM's were terrified to take kids out of high school in 1996.
10 scoring titles (NBA record)
When Shaq went to the Lakers, he was going to Los Angeles for more money, he wasn't going to a super team….in fact, at the time, the Magic team he was leaving was more talented than the Lakers team he was joining.
These morons will use this as reason to why Bron is better than MJ….in 1989, the Bulls werent expected to get out of the 1st rd
These idiots out there think teams LeBron faced in the Finals were more talented than teams MJ faced
6 NBA Finals MVP Awards (NBA record)
In 2007 & 2018, the Cavs won the two worst conferences in terms of talent in NBA History, the only other one I seen comparable was 2001.
I'm a NBA basketball fan, not a MJ or LeBron fan, this nonsense of fans with agendas is madness bur these strictly Brin fans, who aren't really NBA fans like to point to the teams Jordan played in the Finals, calling them inferior teams.
And bought something…no not how it works, its like the ppl who advertise products here, spamming linjs they're doing this because they aren't making money, they don't know what they're actually doing
BLOCKS PER GAME
12 straight games with 10+ assists
If that happened M.J wouldn’t be Michael Jordan, the way LeBron James isn’t Michael Jordan.
Clifford Robinson - SF - All-star - 6th man award - 2x all-defense (2)
I hate Advanced metrics in the NBA because it's not basketball & really these stats, the best most accurate advanced metrics are for coaches & sharp bettors not to judge players on who's better
This game of basketball is a game of assignments & to speak to me about the game, you should understand why MJ didn't average 8.0 rebounds & 8.0 assists any other seasons than the one where he played 24 games at PG.
Won MVP, DPOY & Scoring Title in Same Season (35 ppg - 5.5 reb - 5.9 ast - 3.2 stl - 1.6 blk)
This is idiocy, teams were more talented back then, if for no other reason, teams were able to have more depth after paying the stars on the team
A BEAUTIFUL MIND
They did on “the shot” over Craig Ehlo, won the 2nd rd & then gave the Pistons the hardest test they had in the 1989 playoffs
If I point out why Jordan's better, well, I'll probably say, I don't engage in idiocy, that's how ludicrous it all is
Won 25-of-possible-26 playoff series’ from 1991-to-1998
Shawn Marion and Clarence Weatherspoon are tied with 8.1 rebounds-per-game in the 9th & 10th positions for rebounding small forwards.
Michael v LeBron - stats are ranked all-time against others at their positions per game
I'm only bringing this up because I've been afraid she might tip over - one way or the other, even with gravity
This is a big reason, all these ridiculous takes exist on legends online.
she's so smart & has real things to deal with…she was a teacher, has a degree in pedagogy & now is working at a restaurant at 31 years old….Makin Nothing, not like they make money teaching anyhow
blocks 17th
Those nine consecutive First Team All-Defense selections are an NBA record. Nobody else has ever been named 1st Team 9 consecutive seasons.
LeBron James averaged over two steals-per-game only once in his career. Averaging 2.2 in his second season in the NBA.
She'll go “I cry” i say “ok”, she says “I prove” then I get a image of her tears & snot leaking out her nose”
The game score analytic isn’t a stat for a season or a career but each rating is for a single game by one particular player. Michael is first with this stat too. His career high 69 point game from 3-28-90 vs the Cavs is first above all other games played by any players throughout NBA history.
REBOUNDING
Honestly, any stats alone, shouldn't really be used to define a players greatness or how comparable he is to another player
Michael Jordan wasn’t going to let anyone else eat. Not at all. The Magic defeated Chicago in 1995 but paid for it in 1996.
I don’t know how many rings Jordan would have in LeBron’s stead. What I do know is in 2009, Michael would’ve made it to the NBA Finals. He wouldn’t have lost against an Orlando Magic team led by Dwight Howard and Hedo Turkolgu. In 2011 with Wade and Bosh, he would have beaten the Dallas Mavericks very easily. Nowitzki wouldn’t have a ring and neither would the 2014 San Antonio Spurs.
Highest PPG in the regular season (30.1)
As in any lucrative or worthwhile profession, a very specific skillset is needed
rebounds 12th
Mike averaged a league leading 32.5 points, 8.0 rebounds, 8.0 assists, and 2.9 steals per game throughout the entire 1988-89 season.
LeBron was to take Michael’s spot on the Bulls, I don’t know how many rings he would have, but it wouldn’t be six.
LeBron James honors include being named to the All-NBA Defensive First Team five straight times from 2008-09-until-2012-13. The following season he was selected the the All-NBA Defensive Second Team (2013-14). James hasn’t been named to another All-Defensive team since.
The only team LeBron faced that was better or as good as some of the Bulls opponents were the G.S Warriors with Kevin Durant.
She cry & had already conditioned me like I do my prospects for my products, that when she cry, I pay an emotional toll until I'm. Like a baby, roll on my side & go to. Sleep
Those teams would've been more talented than the Bulls were
Michael averaged 0.9 blocks-per-game with the Chicago Bulls but only 0.5 for the Washington Wizards.
Scheming on the NBA's power structure, trying to place yourself on the most talented team in the NBA
But the ppl with this knowledge, they know you are fraudulent, deep down, they know it too, but somewhere along the way, they've convinced themselves they are thorough
Ok, done venting, thanks for listening - those that did, anyone else, you didnt have to. Read it, you chose to
Very smart but very “sometimes” angry, judgemental, very temperamental, kind of crazy 🤪
Misinformed Buzzer Beaters
He may be the best small forward ever. I think he is and there are some really legendary SF’s in basketball history. James has a rare skillset and playing style but no one is top three that took shortcuts and then still failed more than they succeeded.
Some Michael Jordan Accolades
Starting from March 11, 1989, Jordan played his first game as a point guard against the Seattle SuperSonics, where he logged 18 points, eight rebounds, and 15 assists.
THEY WANT TO SAVE MONEY
I just sold a $10,000 in ground basketball hoop past week but the big money comes from creating campiagns from paid ads
I never know what I did wrong either
Because LeBron has been in the NBA for more time than he hasn't been during his life (and you could make that statement 3 years ago) doesn't make him better than MJ
And LBJ didn't defeat them, in 2017, the Cavs suffered the worst margin of loss in an NBA Finals ever….luckily this record was short lived because it was broken in the 2018 Finals rematch.
But that's all there really is now.
If they arent already looking for this, they aren't buying anything. I've had multiple students try to target something like today's weather
Michael Jordan’s stats are remarkable. He won 25-of-26 NBA playoff series from 1991-1998. He was 24-11 all-time in the NBA Finals too.
But those same ‘experts’ that thought the Blazers were going to roll through the NBA in 1991 en route to a title, those same ppl decided they had just been one year off because Portland was young (ish)
The Chicago Bulls legend averaged 2.5 in the Windy City and 1.5 in Washington – for a career average of 2.3 steals-per-game.
What….there are positions & assignments in basketball. I can't stand this nonsense.
Many teams have taken food off of LeBron’s plate. Biting for his fingers like the walking dead. That is the difference. That is the history of the NBA.
9 consecutive 1st team All-Defense selections (NBA Record)
Clyde Drexler - SG - 10x all-star- 1x all-nba (1) - 2x all-nba (2) - 2x all-nba (3) - runner up 1992 NBA MVP
steals 3rd
Like MJ Is the biggest star but he doesn't have the talent around him to win a championship, it was a great run, unexpected to the Finals but this was where it would end
PG's & SF's are going to have more assists & rebounds on average compared to any shooting guard because of assignments
But if I do engage, like in my MJ v LeBron article from 2021 that was used as the main source of information on a MJ vs LeBron debate between Harvard & Yale
These were very good teams. They were all better than the San Antonio Spurs team that beat LeBron in 2014 and should’ve defeated Miami in the previous season too. It isn’t even close in terms of overall talent.
He doesn’t get credit for stacking the deck and being the best loser. Runner-up trophies in the NBA don’t exist, they aren’t a real thing.
M.J is the only shooting guard that is in the top five in both steals and blocks all-time at the SG position. It’s clear that both players are legends but James isn’t even top 3 all-time.
You wouldn’t compare a small forward’s rebounding to a center or power forward either. LBJ is a top notch rebounder at the SF position.
LeBron is a beast, of course he could play in any era. He played 72 NBA All-star games, not that that matters. He also led the Los Angeles Lakers to a record 17th NBA title. Congratulations, he just isn’t what Jordan was. If these people who think he is, just keep looking at misleading stats, you’ll never actually understand it.
Terry Porter - PG - 2x all-star
He is just behind Armen Gilliam and Antawn Jamison, who both averaged 7.7 rebounds-per-game in their National Basketball Association careers.
Steals-Per-Game
He was a two time consensus All-American and Player-of-the-Year for the North Carolina Tar Heels
Michael also has the best value over replacement player (VORP) season in NBA history at 12.47 in 1987-88. He has the third best too, that’s from 1988-89 (11.42). M.J actually has six of the top 10 VORP seasons of all-time
assists 1st
You'd think I called her a c*** or something, the way she acted
Yes, the internet allows you to spam your allergic thoughts just as the fake affiliate marketer attempts to pretend he is an expert
Michael Jordan didn’t let other players eat, while players have been taking food (rings) right off LBJ’s dinner table. That isn’t top 3 behavior. LeBron James has 4 NBA Finals MVP’s, so I put him somewhere in the top 5. Anyone who says James isn’t top 10 or couldn’t play when Jordan did are speaking out of stupidity.
Never scored under 15 points in a playoff game, no franchise superstar other than MJ can say this
He’s got the most blocks all-time at his position with 828 too. Dwayne Wade is second with 804 in four less career games played.
Jerome Kersey - SF - could score 15-25 points any night with 8-15 reb
It's sheer idiocy to make this argument because LeBron isn't a player nobody wanted was unsigned & found a team & just led them to championships & the did it again
So, last week, she's on her little electric scooter going 50 kph & she tip over, kiss the asphalt & luckily only destroyed her pretty little face a bit but only needed a few stitches above her lip
Somebody had to win those conferences & LeBron is a legend but making the Finals because someone had to win & then getting slaughtered in the Finals…it isn't something you should use in your argument & you wouldn't if your argument was standing on solid ground
LeBron is shooting 37.5% on shots over 3 feet from the basket, 35.9% in the playoffs. In the last 2 minutes of a game where the score is within five points either way, James is shooting 31.7%. He isn’t a very good free throw shooter either, especially in the clutch.
Kevin McHale had to literally convince KG that going to Boston was best for KG in terms of winning & for Minnesota to get something for him, while he was still on top of his game.